Comments on: Porcupine Roach http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/ Every day life - Work - Ironman Training Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:20:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Carolyn http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-68272 Carolyn Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:59:28 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-68272 The wanderingbull.com store has everything you need to make a porcupine hair roach. Owner has been making them for 35 years and can help with questions on how to. Worth checking out this family owned co. The wanderingbull.com store has everything you need to make a porcupine hair roach. Owner has been making them for 35 years and can help with questions on how to. Worth checking out this family owned co.

]]> By: equa yonv http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-66884 equa yonv Mon, 12 Sep 2011 01:14:14 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-66884 anyone wanting to make a porky roach, there are many kits on crazycrow.com simple real looking fiber optic (easier to build) to the more traditional porcupine hair. these also come with detailed instructions. I'm starting mine next week. anyone wanting to make a porky roach, there are many kits on crazycrow.com simple real looking fiber optic (easier to build) to the more traditional porcupine hair. these also come with detailed instructions. I’m starting mine next week.

]]> By: joe strangler horse http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-65554 joe strangler horse Sun, 17 Jul 2011 21:04:43 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-65554 hi..i was wondering if the porcupine guard hair from maine (the state) is long enough as in the mid west porcupines?? hi..i was wondering if the porcupine guard hair from maine (the state) is long enough as in the mid west porcupines??

]]> By: anquoeK http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-65509 anquoeK Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:02:36 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-65509 Still no history. In all likeliness this word comes from a middle French word for a rolled up brush of hair, or bristled hair. De Champlain, De Rochfort, and LaSalle were known through the Great Lakes regions as documenting our peoples ways from Canada into the Carribean. In the early 1800's Charles Bonaparte (Napoleon's nephew) came to the Americas recording newbird species and may have used the name roach because of the spiked bristles (te origin of the fish roach is sketchy, but dates to this period). The French were known to be close allies among the Great Lakes people. From our perspective it seems obvious this object denotes some sign of power, or energy, like a crown. The only other culture with such a comparison are the Hindu chakres signifying energy permations from atop the brain, or skull. The Osage continue the practice of "roaching" during their Hethuska ceremonies. Please send me comments. I have spoken. Aho! Still no history. In all likeliness this word comes from a middle French word for a rolled up brush of hair, or bristled hair. De Champlain, De Rochfort, and LaSalle were known through the Great Lakes regions as documenting our peoples ways from Canada into the Carribean. In the early 1800′s Charles Bonaparte (Napoleon’s nephew) came to the Americas recording newbird species and may have used the name roach because of the spiked bristles (te origin of the fish roach is sketchy, but dates to this period). The French were known to be close allies among the Great Lakes people. From our perspective it seems obvious this object denotes some sign of power, or energy, like a crown. The only other culture with such a comparison are the Hindu chakres signifying energy permations from atop the brain, or skull. The Osage continue the practice of “roaching” during their Hethuska ceremonies. Please send me comments. I have spoken. Aho!

]]> By: kyotphil http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-58654 kyotphil Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:45:39 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-58654 I was to find some insight into roach making so I maybe see some tying methods, and stitching methods. Different people have learned different ways of doing things for the result. Anyway a lot of controversy going on, as usual. Aye. The one fellow says you can pin the porky down with a fork stick or whatever and strip the hair you need off 'em. Like my sister in law used to say, her "Ugga's" use to throw a old blanked on a porky or a burlap, and a million quills would come off that way. I've shot and trapped a couple over the years. But you can't get in front of a lively Porkypine. He'll turn on a dime and keep his back to you, his eyes see to behind him. He'll whirl and whirl, and take off for a tree. Good luck with the stick trick, you'll have to be fast. See you. I was to find some insight into roach making so I maybe see some tying methods, and stitching methods. Different people have learned different ways of doing things for the result. Anyway a lot of controversy going on, as usual. Aye. The one fellow says you can pin the porky down with a fork stick or whatever and strip the hair you need off ‘em. Like my sister in law used to say, her “Ugga’s” use to throw a old blanked on a porky or a burlap, and a million quills would come off that way. I’ve shot and trapped a couple over the years. But you can’t get in front of a lively Porkypine. He’ll turn on a dime and keep his back to you, his eyes see to behind him. He’ll whirl and whirl, and take off for a tree. Good luck with the stick trick, you’ll have to be fast. See you.

]]> By: K'liista Andahqua http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-56292 K'liista Andahqua Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:40:28 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-56292 Yeah the claim to do a big roach in 8hrs is insane. out here the way we do it is to take the hair directly from the hide(AFTER you remove the quills!) as opposed to buying bundles of unassorted hair. the porcupine itself arranges them by size fairly well and its still gonna take a good bit more than 8hrs(!), but this does cut down on the time required to make one.We trap out here, but you can usually get a good size hide without quills for $30-40. Yeah the claim to do a big roach in 8hrs is insane. out here the way we do it is to take the hair directly from the hide(AFTER you remove the quills!) as opposed to buying bundles of unassorted hair. the porcupine itself arranges them by size fairly well and its still gonna take a good bit more than 8hrs(!), but this does cut down on the time required to make one.We trap out here, but you can usually get a good size hide without quills for $30-40.

]]> By: jozef http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-55579 jozef Wed, 28 Apr 2010 18:56:21 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-55579 iw want to buit few roaches,ilooked for asfonre but could not find call me at 6105688313 or email at nijboer@gmail.com thanx iw want to buit few roaches,ilooked for asfonre but could not find call me at 6105688313 or email at nijboer@gmail.com thanx

]]> By: jozef http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-55523 jozef Sun, 18 Apr 2010 21:26:46 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-55523 from what i know growing up i was told that roaches are made from porcupine guard hair and buck tail hair.which porcupine has the longest guard hair?i was in vermont and saw a lot of roadkill porcupines and it seemedt5hat the hair wasnt long at all.maybe the ones from out west are longer.and the buck tail the same thing.out west seems they are longer hair?could you answer my question? from what i know growing up i was told that roaches are made from porcupine guard hair and buck tail hair.which porcupine has the longest guard hair?i was in vermont and saw a lot of roadkill porcupines and it seemedt5hat the hair wasnt long at all.maybe the ones from out west are longer.and the buck tail the same thing.out west seems they are longer hair?could you answer my question?

]]> By: Bob E. http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-55446 Bob E. Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:40:50 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-55446 I liked the comment by Gerald C. He takes an order but no cash up frontand if the customer likes it, fine! If not, that's O.K. too. He still has a piece of craftwork to sell. What I like to do if a person is on a tight budget is work out a payment plan well within their budget so I can fill their needs without handycapping them in any way. Bob E I liked the comment by Gerald C. He takes an order but no cash up frontand if the customer likes it, fine! If not, that’s O.K. too. He still has a piece of craftwork to sell. What I like to do if a person is on a tight budget is work out a payment plan well within their budget so I can fill their needs without handycapping them in any way.
Bob E

]]> By: chad http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-54474 chad Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:21:05 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-54474 Marty Soaring Eagle i dont think you can talk i have emailed you i don't know the times and have got nothing back from you i been getting emails saying you want me to donate some money to your so called tribe.i have email you back ever time that i have gotin one of this emails to tell you that if i was in your tribe i did not get a letter or any thing saying that i was.. and on your tribal application why would you ask for the last to number in some ones social security i just don't think that's a good thing to give to someone.WADO Marty Soaring Eagle i dont think you can talk i have emailed you i don’t know the times and have got nothing back from you i been getting emails saying you want me to donate some money to your so called tribe.i have email you back ever time that i have gotin one of this emails to tell you that if i was in your tribe i did not get a letter or any thing saying that i was.. and on your tribal application why would you ask for the last to number in some ones social security i just don’t think that’s a good thing to give to someone.WADO

]]> By: Byron Weeks http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-54443 Byron Weeks Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:50:36 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-54443 I learned to make roachs from my dad I like him have it down to 5 to 6 hours. But supplies do run scarce and family gets in the way from time to time. Not to mention work and other things. Point being is yes i owe a few roachs to people and it will get done in a good way soon. But if you dont know or cant make a roach or do bead work or have the slightest crafty bone dont get down on people. Bashing people makes you look ignorant and pestery like a little kid. Ruining someones life of college over a shitty 300 or 400 dollars that can be replaced is stupid. They print money everyday and everday its spent stolen and still more money is made. Right it off and learn from it dont be dumb and ruin someones college and cry to everyone that is willing to listen. I learned to make roachs from my dad I like him have it down to 5 to 6 hours. But supplies do run scarce and family gets in the way from time to time. Not to mention work and other things. Point being is yes i owe a few roachs to people and it will get done in a good way soon. But if you dont know or cant make a roach or do bead work or have the slightest crafty bone dont get down on people. Bashing people makes you look ignorant and pestery like a little kid. Ruining someones life of college over a shitty 300 or 400 dollars that can be replaced is stupid. They print money everyday and everday its spent stolen and still more money is made. Right it off and learn from it dont be dumb and ruin someones college and cry to everyone that is willing to listen.

]]> By: Blackbird http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-54287 Blackbird Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:23:27 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-54287 Well, I went out last weekend and got guard hairs from 5 porcupines. I just ran 'em down the tree and yoked them with a forked stick. I pulled what I needed and released the porcupine. Unlike some people who call a white person a liar, a cheat, a thief, or anything else mean spirited............it's time to quit with this kind of garbage. Like myself, I have a respect for the Lakota people and have many friends on the Pine Ridge Reservation. Instead of lumping people into a category why not make friends instead of ignorance. As far as that goes, I also bring semi-tractor loads of clothing, blankets, building materials, and food for people who don't have anything on the Pine Ridge. My buddy Marty came down to Colorado to help me gather the guard hairs needed to make a roach so I could learn how to make one and let him take it to the Black Hills Pow Wow this weekend. Well, I went out last weekend and got guard hairs from 5 porcupines. I just ran ‘em down the tree and yoked them with a forked stick. I pulled what I needed and released the porcupine. Unlike some people who call a white person a liar, a cheat, a thief, or anything else mean spirited…………it’s time to quit with this kind of garbage. Like myself, I have a respect for the Lakota people and have many friends on the Pine Ridge Reservation. Instead of lumping people into a category why not make friends instead of ignorance. As far as that goes, I also bring semi-tractor loads of clothing, blankets, building materials, and food for people who don’t have anything on the Pine Ridge. My buddy Marty came down to Colorado to help me gather the guard hairs needed to make a roach so I could learn how to make one and let him take it to the Black Hills Pow Wow this weekend.

]]> By: Gerald C. http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-53388 Gerald C. Mon, 25 May 2009 20:20:51 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-53388 With respect I post my thoughts on the above problem. If a person has a business, and they make good work, Traditional work, respecting the "Old Ones", one might consider my way of doing this business. If a man comes to me and asks me to make him a Roach or any other piece and offers to give me money up front, I refuse to take it. I tell him that I will make what he wants and when I am done, if he likes it, then he can pay me. I do my work in the Old Ways and have belief that if I try hard , my Brother will like what I have made for him. So far I have had no bad feelings as I tell them up front, "I am slow but with prayer,and sweat it will be worth the wait", Yokoke, from an old man. With respect I post my thoughts on the above problem. If a person has a business, and they make good work, Traditional work, respecting the “Old Ones”, one might consider my way of doing this business. If a man comes to me and asks me to make him a Roach or any other piece and offers to give me money up front, I refuse to take it. I tell him that I will make what he wants and when I am done, if he likes it, then he can pay me. I do my work in the Old Ways and have belief that if I try hard , my Brother will like what I have made for him. So far I have had no bad feelings as I tell them up front, “I am slow but with prayer,and sweat it will be worth the wait”, Yokoke, from an old man.

]]> By: Tom Collison http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-53036 Tom Collison Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:14:55 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-53036 If your looking for quality Turkey Beard Roaches, or Bone spreaders please stop by Cattail Trading Post cattailtradingpost.com We have a large selection of Indian Made Turkey Beard Roaches. We also have other items as well. If your looking for help in selling your roaches give send us an email and we can talk about that as well. Thank you, Tom If your looking for quality Turkey Beard Roaches, or Bone spreaders please stop by Cattail Trading Post cattailtradingpost.com We have a large selection of Indian Made Turkey Beard Roaches. We also have other items as well. If your looking for help in selling your roaches give send us an email and we can talk about that as well.

Thank you,

Tom

]]> By: Powwow Outfitters http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-52758 Powwow Outfitters Sun, 08 Mar 2009 01:03:01 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-52758 We make roaches from 4"-36". If your looking for a good quality roach give us a ring. We have roaches listed on powwows.com in the trading post section under outfits. Sgi Brad We make roaches from 4″-36″. If your looking for a good quality roach give us a ring. We have roaches listed on powwows.com in the trading post section under outfits.
Sgi
Brad

]]> By: Diana http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-52144 Diana Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:56:30 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-52144 Wesly Two Eagles did keep his word and did what he said he would. Thank you. Wesly Two Eagles did keep his word and did what he said he would. Thank you.

]]> By: Marty Soaring Eagle http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-52141 Marty Soaring Eagle Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:34:38 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-52141 No and I never will order from you. Also I, unlike you, was elected Chief. And I serve the People, not fleece them. No and I never will order from you. Also I, unlike you, was elected Chief. And I serve the People, not fleece them.

]]> By: Two Eagles http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-52138 Two Eagles Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:31:30 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-52138 And besides you are a self made chief so who are you to talk about fraud? And besides you are a self made chief so who are you to talk about fraud?

]]> By: Two Eagles http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-52137 Two Eagles Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:30:43 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-52137 Marty you have never ordered from me! Marty you have never ordered from me!

]]> By: Robert Boyd III http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-51889 Robert Boyd III Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:53:46 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-51889 I seen someone on a comment said they needed help makin a roach i'm currently making a 40inch porky roach for myself if they still need help stringing up the hair or stitching it to the roach base please feel free to email me at millelacsdecent@yahoo.com "miigwetch" I seen someone on a comment said they needed help makin a roach i’m currently making a 40inch porky roach for myself if they still need help stringing up the hair or stitching it to the roach base please feel free to email me at millelacsdecent@yahoo.com “miigwetch”

]]> By: Marty Soaring Eagle http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-51193 Marty Soaring Eagle Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:30:48 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-51193 Wesly, I am reminded of two old sayings, "don't bite off more than you can chew," and" if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." When you do business with people, whether it be a business or an individual, they want the product they have paid for in a timely manner. If you don't have the materials of time to fill their order, than don't take on the order. Also you need to learn to communicate with people, I sent you at least 6 emails with no response, that looks like you were avoiding the issue. Your post hurts your business, if you are almost 2 years behind on filling you orders why should anyone place an order with you.I'm sorry about your physical problems, but we all have situations to deal with and you made the choice to start a business, therefore you willingly took on the responsibility of operating it properly. Wesly,
I am reminded of two old sayings, “don’t bite off more than you can chew,” and” if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.” When you do business with people, whether it be a business or an individual, they want the product they have paid for in a timely manner. If you don’t have the materials of time to fill their order, than don’t take on the order. Also you need to learn to communicate with people, I sent you at least 6 emails with no response, that looks like you were avoiding the issue. Your post hurts your business, if you are almost 2 years behind on filling you orders why should anyone place an order with you.I’m sorry about your physical problems, but we all have situations to deal with and you made the choice to start a business, therefore you willingly took on the responsibility of operating it properly.

]]> By: Two Eagles http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-51177 Two Eagles Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:28:00 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-51177 What people don't realize is sometimes my orders can get backed up to a year and a half... All my items are hand made, and sometimes I get large orders from trading posts, museums,collectors,and whole families that order fully beaded regalia of all kinds, so 1 order could take several weeks to make... I do have a list of back orders but I try to get them out as soon as possible... Sometimes supplies run dry, and I have to wait until they come in due to seasons, or molting... I am working on getting my websites redesigned, so that they will be more professional, and of easier usage... If I owe you a order, then I promise you it's being taken care of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Being 26 and having the responsibility of a full family,higher education,and running a business is hard enough when my diabetes isn't slowing me down, but that's the curse that I have taken on, and I focus more on helping my people than making large profits... So, if anyone thinks that I'm a thief, or a liar, then I'm sorry, but everything takes time, and there are only 24 hrs in a day... What happened to being on indian time.... Just Kidding! But seriously, if someone has ever placed an order you will be guarenteed the items... And if it's a roach, and it's been after 6 months to a year, then I always upgrade the size to allow for growth periods of an individual. Tali Awohali(Two Eagles) What people don’t realize is sometimes my orders can get backed up to a year and a half… All my items are hand made, and sometimes I get large orders from trading posts, museums,collectors,and whole families that order fully beaded regalia of all kinds, so 1 order could take several weeks to make… I do have a list of back orders but I try to get them out as soon as possible… Sometimes supplies run dry, and I have to wait until they come in due to seasons, or molting… I am working on getting my websites redesigned, so that they will be more professional, and of easier usage… If I owe you a order, then I promise you it’s being taken care of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Being 26 and having the responsibility of a full family,higher education,and running a business is hard enough when my diabetes isn’t slowing me down, but that’s the curse that I have taken on, and I focus more on helping my people than making large profits… So, if anyone thinks that I’m a thief, or a liar, then I’m sorry, but everything takes time, and there are only 24 hrs in a day… What happened to being on indian time…. Just Kidding! But seriously, if someone has ever placed an order you will be guarenteed the items… And if it’s a roach, and it’s been after 6 months to a year, then I always upgrade the size to allow for growth periods of an individual.

Tali Awohali(Two Eagles)

]]> By: Marty Soaring Eagle http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-51165 Marty Soaring Eagle Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:20:53 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-51165 Well, he finally did it. I am happy to say that finally after almost a year, Wesly has come through with the roach. From what I have been told he did a good job on it. I hope that he will do the right thing for the other young man he owes a roach. I also hope that from now on he treats all of his customers in an ethical manner with hnor and intergrity. Marty Soaring Eagle Well, he finally did it. I am happy to say that finally after almost a year, Wesly has come through with the roach. From what I have been told he did a good job on it. I hope that he will do the right thing for the other young man he owes a roach. I also hope that from now on he treats all of his customers in an ethical manner with hnor and intergrity.

Marty Soaring Eagle

]]> By: Marty Soaring Eagle http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-50830 Marty Soaring Eagle Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:35:32 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-50830 You know it's bad enough when a white man cheats, lies and steals from a Native American, but we have come to expect that, but when it is someone who claims to be a Native American who does the lying, cheating and stealing, it is hard to swallow. Come on Wesly, be a man, even if you aren't a Human Being, show a little honor and integrity for once and give the young man what you owe him, either send the roach or the money, but this thing has gone on long enough. You won't be able to get back into college until this matter is settled. At least call me and let me know why you aren't fulfilling your promise. My number is 502-966-9049, you can even call me collect. You know it’s bad enough when a white man cheats, lies and steals from a Native American, but we have come to expect that, but when it is someone who claims to be a Native American who does the lying, cheating and stealing, it is hard to swallow. Come on Wesly, be a man, even if you aren’t a Human Being, show a little honor and integrity for once and give the young man what you owe him, either send the roach or the money, but this thing has gone on long enough. You won’t be able to get back into college until this matter is settled. At least call me and let me know why you aren’t fulfilling your promise. My number is 502-966-9049, you can even call me collect.

]]> By: Marty Soaring Eagle Martin http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/comment-page-1/#comment-50794 Marty Soaring Eagle Martin Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:29:02 +0000 http://www.rebron.org/2006/04/01/porcupine-roach/#comment-50794 Well, it looks like the lies continue, Mr Wright has done wrong again and now I am really upset. He called White Dove almost a month ago and promised the roach would be forth coming, well guess what no roach, no call, no email, nothing. I was willing to retract everything I had posted about him, but now I shall increase my efforts to get the lying, thieving snake to come out of his hole and do the right thing, either the roach or the money. I shall next be contacting his grandfather to see if he can get him to be a man and do the honorable thing. Well, it looks like the lies continue, Mr Wright has done wrong again and now I am really upset. He called White Dove almost a month ago and promised the roach would be forth coming, well guess what no roach, no call, no email, nothing. I was willing to retract everything I had posted about him, but now I shall increase my efforts to get the lying, thieving snake to come out of his hole and do the right thing, either the roach or the money. I shall next be contacting his grandfather to see if he can get him to be a man and do the honorable thing.

]]>